To understand Aatish Taseer's obsession with Pakistan -- to get a sense of its special edges, its hysteria — it is necessary to understand the rejection of Aatish by his father that lies at the heart of his ill-informed carping about Pakistan.
Aatish Taseer's acceptance is purely his personal matter. Obviously, one cannot expect any man (so-called respectable man from highly rich and politically connected class) to accept a child out of wedlock. That apart, how much ever bitter it may sound, Pakistanis — rich and poor alike — have been fed on extremism, hatred and ignorance for over decades. Hence, they will continue to live in denial remain blind. No one but God can save them. As they say, it is for the world to see and judge!
I've have to complete agree with the view of Tharoor that any Pakistani is first a Pakistani before he is a liberal or anything....and at the same time as Aatish Tahseer himself has pointed out, the identity of a Pakistani is first hatred towards India. This Islamic state has nothing to offer other than terrorism, betrayal, back-stabbing and the like towards India. It is a historically proven fact. Every Indian will agree with Tharoor :)
Unfortunately for Indians, and fortunately for us that this guy doesn't represent majority of Indian thinking. We have friends in India, Indians have friends in Pakistan. So these few individuals won't be able to influence masses. We won't buy this hatred thought Mr Tharoor. You failed:)
Why do most of Indians want to teach Pakistanis what they should be, how they should think and what should they feel! Mr Tharoor thinks that people on the other side of the divide have no right to their independent thought process. The world's biggest democracy should also teach its respected authors to respect the rights of others.
I like it: "A Pakistani liberal is after-all a Pakistani before he is liberal." Dr Tharoor commented very well on Tasser's column and also explained his point very well that every Indian should know on their part.
" In our naïveté, we also tend to assume that Pakistani liberals would agree with us, seeing the salvation of their land lying in greater democracy and development, free of the stranglehold of the world’s most lavishly-funded military (in terms of percentage of national resources and GDP consumed by any Army on the planet). Alas, judging by their reactions to Taseer’s article, this seems not to be the case".
I think that the response to Atish Taseer is not a good way to judge Pak liberals. I may disagree with my father or brother and argue vigorously with them. But if an outsider criticises them, I will strongly defend them. Same here. People responded sharply to Atish Taseer and yet his central thesis of the role of army and the deliberate grooming of the 'not India' identity of Pakistan has been echoed by many Pak journalists. The issue here was that
a) Atish was Indian
b) He was criticising Salman Taseer - who has lately become a hero among Pak liberals after having been assassinated for standing up for the Christian Asia Bibi in the blasphemy case.
I think now I know why you lost the UN secretary-general election. Earning brownie points may work in college debates, but not in international diplomacy.
The write-up is provocative. Such comments were to be expected. I nevertheless think that the author has been under poor influence and we should leave it unto his own good will to flush it out of his system in domestic privacy. Some of you may have noticed his quality shift and turn. All is not well and it is true of many of us who feel caught in an alien influence.
An Indian liberal is, after all, an Indian, before he is a liberal. So nobody should be surprised by these one-sided views from this liberal author. As for Atish, I do feel that his rage against his father who did not come upfront to hold the little hands of his kid, is justified. Even if it is directed against the country of his father. His father forced him to be more of an Indian and his Indian mother took him with open arms.
Let's settle on this thing. The Indian liberal talks about Indian point of view as a Pakistani liberal talks about Pakistani. These two nations have no right to talk about each other and take a faux-moral superiority complex because both have immense amount of biases for each other.
And I thought I wouldn't have to write this in a comment.
Excellent punch!! You have knocked them out, all those liberal Pakistanis. Now Mr Tharoor, take a glass of water... you are gasping ;)
No heard feeling towards Pakistanis or Indians. I learned from elders when I was young that you need both hands to clap. So we should get rid with hatred. What have we achieved with these statements? Does any religion, school, parent or society teach anyone of us that hate others, do wrong things? Please repect human and humanity. bring people closer to each other to make lives beautiful.
While self-acclaimed Indian liberals are always out there castigating India on any so-called peace initiatives to the extent of even questioning for example the constitutional position of J&K's accession, their Pakistani counterparts invariably follow Pakistan's point that sees Kashmir as an unfinished agenda of the two nation theory-driven Partition. It is this interface between the so-called liberals & civil society of India & Pakistan that has allowed brutal ethnic cleansing of Kashmiri Pandits — the victims of Pak-sponsored pan-Islamism-inspired terror violence to be overlooked in the name of illusive peace. A blatant lie that the then Governor of J&K was responsible for exodus of hapless minority as if the community was a flock of sheep has emanated from the mindset that claims itself to be liberal & secular. Imtiaz Alam of SAFMA on his return from Kashmir had the audacity to declare in an interview that the squalid camps of Kashmiri Pandits in Jammu were centres of right wing extremism while in Kashmir he 'failed' to even 'notice' the pan Islamic fervour as a motivation behind the on-going secessionism. Needless to say no counter questions were asked.
I found the article a nice read, but had as much fun reading the comments posted underneath it and thus chose to put in my own response. I agree, entirely that the term "Pakistani liberal" is a bit of an oxymoron. The basic minimum premise of someone qualifying to be an intelectual liberal is that he beleives in equality of all men irrespective of caste, colour religon etc. To do that as a Pakistani national you would have to stand against your own Constitution which is thecratic. Thus no Pakistani can be a true liberal unless he is ready to raise a voice against his country's Constitution which does not treat all religons as equal.
Whilst I agree with Shashi on what ails not only Pakistan and our relationship, I do not believe any useful purpose will be served by bashing Pakistani liberals. Allow them space to reject Aatish. They are our best bet anyway. Secondly, Pakistani liberals, like Indian liberals, are not a homogenous community and stereotyping has never helped anyone.
@Rajan Sinha, I completely agree with you. You expressed exactly what I felt after reading Tharoor's article. I have come across some Pakistanis who totally agree with Aatish's views about what ails their country. But it may not always be easy for them to admit this because they are loyal to their country. As for the response of Pakistani journalists like Ejaz Haider, I think that some journalists (like Indian journalists) can be opinionated and over-nationalistic
I fail to understand why we get so worked up on what Pakistan is doing. I am a science student so have limited knowledge in this field. Every country acts to achieve its national interest. Pakistan was formed on the premise that people of Pakistan cannot stay with India. If today they decide that India can be friends and there is no security threat from it, the raison d'être for having Pakistan will get defeated and that will be a threat to its very existence. Therefore, it is Pakistan's national interest to be anti India. Remember what happened in Germany? If todayTaiwan-China, North and South Korea decide that they can be friends, how long will it take for them to merge?
Therefore, Pakistan does not have any choice other than being anti- India. We in India should get used to it and should expect regular anti India activity from Pakistan and try to mitigate them to the extent possible.
Imagine for a moment if Indian Hindus had a real peacenik leader, one who advocated use if non-violence, turning the other cheek, adopting and bring up Muslim orphans as Muslims, includnig Allah in their bhajans, that sort of thing. I know, crazy stuff, if such a person could ever be produced, and crazier still if 100s of millions of Hindus were to rally behind such a person.
Then imagine for a moment that Muslims were lead by a real westernized secularist, who believed in education, technology, rule of law and so forth, quoted Shakespeare, wore sharply tailored suits, visited the hairdresser regularly, owned shaving equipment and used it and so on. And crazily enough, imagine if Muslims rallied behind such a person.
Boy, wouldn't we all had real peace in the subcontinent! Why, India and Pakistan might even have been united in such a scenario! Alas.....
For those who miss the sarcasm, I mean of-course of the greatest "Mahatma" Gandhi, and the "greatest secularist" apparently Jinnah. Now if these two gents couldn't work it out, why do Indians persist on imagining they can convince the hate-filled people in Pakistan of anything else today? There is no Pakistani liberal. Even their so-called liberal, Jinnah, was a hate-filled monster who could not work it out with Gandhi.
Pakistan today is like Nazi Germany without the industrial chops or the organizational finesse. Like Nazi Germany, and Hirohito's Japan, Pakistan will have to be destroyed and then rebuilt. Unfortunately, none is going to give them the shock therapy the Germans and Japanese got. But fortunately, they seem keen on destroying themselves anyway.
Very few Pakistani journalists/columnists dare speak up against the Pak army machinery. Ejaz Haider is definitely not one of them. To even assume otherwise is wasting one's own time.
"But Pakistani liberals are particularly prone to the desire to prove themselves true nationalists; it is the best way to ensure that their otherwise heretical opinions are not completely discredited by the men in uniform who hold the reins of power in the state." The line sums up the situation in the Pakistani 'liberal' media. I think you were very lenient on Ejaz Haider, he is an out and out establishment columnist. Don't use his very infrequent outbursts against the army as a yardstick. I still remember his article explaining why the Mumbai '08 attackers couldn't be Pakistani.... even though journalists by then had already located Ajmal Kasab's family in Pakistani Punjab.
Very well articulated ... agree wholeheartedly.
Excellent retort in as many words, Ejaz Haider in his piece had mentioned you, by name, in a pun intended way, and you have painstakingly explained tongue and cheek not only your view point but the belief of Indians pained by the fact that all effort at balanced, peaceful, co-existence with our neighbour goes to the dogs every year due to some terror incident that has its remote control in the hands of the ISI.
The Pakistani attitude may have something to do with the fact that Aatish Taseer has not been officially `recognised' in Pakistan as Salman's son, probably because of his mixed parentage. Ejaz Haider, for example takes him to task for mis-spelling his father's name (Salma instead of Salmaan, an error most of the Pakistan media makes anyway!). Ejaz accurately discusses the Indian Army ORBAT, without once mentioning that India's threat perception is based on Pakistan's track record!
Whatever the merits and demerits of Aatish's piece, Ejaz tearing into him was way off the mark! And, if he is to be believed, the article would at most have elicited a yawn from him had Shashi Tharoor not made a mention of the young lad.
It's not just Salman Taseer — no Pakistani, howsoever `liberal' he may seem, can digest the yawning gap that separates our countries today, the democracy and the secular fabric, which nobody in Pakistan can refer to except in inverted commas!
I read young Taseer's original article a few days back and I too was impressed with his analysis and language. I will read what the Pak liberals have to say. It is a pity if they can't see that all India wants is to be left alone and they should also focus their attention on their country than on India.
I have read the article by Aatish Taseer and have read a few articles written by Pakistanis (they may not be resident Pakistanis though) and they have the same overall tone and points to make — the hatred for India and the propaganda by the armed forces and ISI about fictitious Indian designs against them are the cause of the high defence spending which eventually has undermined the Pakistani economic development.
The reason for the strong rebuttal by the 'liberal' Pakistanis this time could be since an Indian has made those comments (though he may be half-Pakistani).
Actually, facts show that till about two decades ago the Pakistani and Indian ecomonic parameters were comparable. However the economic changes (largely forced by IMF) in India from 1991 onwards alongwith the continued obsession with India in Pakistan have ensured that the two nations have drifted in opposite directions. While the Indian middle class has grown by leaps and bounds there is little by way of a middle class in Pakistan.
I would, though an Indian, want to advice Pakistan to follow its close ally China's policy of first ensuring a strong economy and then turning agressive in its geo-strategic postures like encircling India and the conducting military exercises near the Japanese seas.
This is excellent. Especially the last line. In fact had Salman Taseer been alive he would have given the same reaction to Aatish's article as these liberals are giving. The design of Pakistani liberals has a pattern in itself.
Pakistan is a nation whose sole identity is based on being "anti-Indian" and while our liberal army of journos on Twitter pour all their love on the Pakistani liberals everytime, they forget that the people who have been born into believing that being Pakistani means being anti-Indian, a slight stir will make their true natures reappear.
Pakistanis are miserable. lost and sucked into this never ending tunnel of darkness; the only thing they remember now is what they were told before they were thrown inside this dark tunnel, "India is an enemy, you shall be anti-India".
Mr Tharoor, Ejaz Haider says Pakistan's military is India-centric given the deployment patterns of the Indian army and you merely explain why they are so deployed without refuting his point. Pointing out that Pakistan's army is a leech on the country's resources is not a ground-breaking insight by Aatish or by you, the "delusional liberals" know it too. But saying the army "diverted" US aid (it is disbursed specifically in military or civillian form) or Osama being found in Abbottabad showed army "duplicity" (no serious US/UK intel so far that it was collusion) only dilutes your point. Just like you put India's interests first, the Pakistani liberals put Pakistan's interests first. The only thing delusional would be to think those interests match your definition of them.
So you believe that someone in Pak Army didn't know where Osama was? If you believe this probably you will also believe that DK Bose is a person's name in the song and not the popular abuse :)
"A Pakistani liberal is, after all, a Pakistani before he is a liberal." The comment is slightly harsh, I understand that religious. fundamentalism is so strong in Pakistan that the so-called liberals cannot survive there without establishing their nationalistic credentials. In the grab of their patriotism they try to solve their problems of survival in that country. There is a dire need of secular symbols or heroes in Pakistan. With much difficulty they could project Mr Taseer and Mr Bhatti as symbols of secularism and democracy. But, unfortunately,just one article of Taseer's son has washed away the whole shine from his father's image. Therefore the panic reaction of the Pakistani liberals is quite understandable and instead of blaming them we should try to sympathise with them.
Quite understand and agree.
Completely agree with you sir.
@ Iftikhar Alam Khan I fully agree with you. All the articles and comments have not brought out this unique point.
Taseer's article was informative to Indian liberals and perhaps a tad too transparent. He should have titled it less personally since the issue belongs to an entire nation. I have a lot of hope for Pakistan that things will be manoeuvered by whatever means necessary.
'Nor should we be surprised: a Pakistani liberal is, after all, a Pakistani before he is a liberal.' Perhaps Shashi would give an insight into the Indian liberals’ mind that support 'corrupt' politicians/officials for sake of it!
Corruption = poverty+pollution+disease+illiteracy.
In the years to come we will see religious fundamentalism rise in India — though not as widespread as in Pakistan. India's religious fundamentalism will be driven by educated Hindus who feel a loss of identity... as western civilisation has encroached into every aspect of modern life. It will be fuelled by Hindu business class from northwestern India who have an aversion for Muslims. Fortunately the Hindus of rural india belong to more profound idea of religion and a much more moderate version of Hinduism. The innate caste system in India will also prove a damper to the intents of these fundamentalists, as to a large extent 'lower caste' Hindus will remain alienated to this fundamentalism driven by caste Hindus.
Nicely said Tharoor... well-written article.
Correct assesment. I did not know how to put my ideas into words, you did it for me. Religious fanaticism has no equal, it is worse than cancer. If the justice system does not perform and deliver speedier justice, something like Egypt will take place.
It is the extremism/misinterpretation/misunderstanding we should be concerned about, not fanaticism. Passion and dedication are beneficial. Ensuring they are healthy is the key. Cancer is an unhealthy formation and uncontrolled growth of that ill formation. Islamic extremism or any other for that matter can be likened to a cancer.
Something like Egypt? LOL! I think the Indian media failed to cover the events of March 2008. Pakistan already had its revolution and deposed its dictator before Egypt and Tunisia happened. However, India is much closer to the Egypt situation, thanks to Anna Hazare and Baba Ramdev.
And if religious fanaticism is worse than cancer, then why aren't you doing anything about VHP, Bajrang Dal and RSS? Not really peaceful and non-violent religious groups they are — unless you confuse them with the Buddhists.